Welcome to Theologetics

Common sense says Jesus “should” exist.

herqlez253 — Mon, 10 Jan 2011 02:00:47 +0000

Did Jesus exist? Ok so there’s tons of debates on whether he existed or not. Some will say we can’t authenticate who the actual Gospel writers were, Jesus didn’t leave any writings, and the writings occurred hundreds of years later. Those are fair and valid arguments. I want to argue against that using a much simple approach of common sense. Please note, I want to limit this to only the historical Jesus and not whether he performed miracles or not and the claims around him (that’s reserved for a different time). My purpose is to show why its more reasonable to believe that a historical Jesus “should” exist and how reasoning dictates that.

Here’s what we do know as a fact using science and history that MOST if not all scholars do agree on:

We have the writings attributed to Mark, John, Luke, Matthew, Peter, James, Pauline epistles; we also have the early church father writings such as Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Origen, and Justin Martyr. But hold your horses real quick. Let’s say that we cannot know for certain that those men were the actual authors. However, scholars ALL agree that it was written prior to 300 AD even as early as 125 AD (John Ryland Fragment) from their dating methods. Because they all had different hand writing styles, we can infer that it was written by different men. Keep in mind, were going to dismiss the identity of those men, pretend to be clueless, and as a bonus we are going to say that it was written hundreds of years later and stretch it out as 200 years later)

Moving on, we also know that Jews and Gentiles were converting. The Jews were abandoning their own faith, apostasy, and having a belief strong enough to override their belief that they could go to eternal damnation.

Furthermore we have outside credible sources such as Cornelius Tacitus (55 – 120 A.D.) Tacitus was a 1st and 2nd century Roman historian and Pliny the Younger (61AD -112AD), was a Roman lawyer and magistrate who records how Christians were being persecuted and dying for their faith because they refuse to accept and worship the Roman government’s gods. We have the persecution under Nero’s ruling who blamed the Christians for a fire in 64AD. These Christians were burned to death and used as evening lights for the city. They were also covered in animal hide and some cases crucified. Then we have the Great Persecution under the reign of Diocletian in the 4th century. Over 20,000 Christians were killed in ways such as throwing them to the Colosseum with wild animals. Over a few years after that, we have another incident of over 1000 Christians killed in Persia under Terving King Athanaric.

So what can any reasonable person know so far without a reasonable doubt? Here’s what we do know so far:

We have the copy of the texts and they exist. You can physically see and touch them. We aren’t arguing if those texts do exist but only arguing as to who wrote them.
Even though were assuming that we don’t know the authors we do know that it was written by different men based on different writings styles, diction, etc. We have hundreds of copies and tons of volumes claimed to be written by the early church fathers as well.
All the writings claim a divine by human figure by the name of Jesus Christ. Unlike other religions, they claim that Jesus ate, drank, and hung out with them like an ordinary person.
Jews and Gentiles were converting to this new religious idea
These Christians were dying for their belief

So far I have given you undeniable facts that Christians and non-Christians agree on. You can’t argue the facts I made above. Christians, let’s put the apologetic books away and non-Christians, just hear me out. From this point, this is where the application of common sense and logic should come in. My question is:

Why would all these men (educated and illiterate peasants) from Jewish and all other religious backgrounds assemble and conspire together to embellish and write volumes upon volumes of books with sooo much elaborate details about this guy named Jesus? I mean these guys wrote about his childhood, ministry, and death. On top of that these men would then die by the hundreds and thousands to refuse to convert to any other religion? WHY??? Even more their made up religion successful survived and surpassed their contemporaries and became compelling enough to fool thousands and thousands of more people, have devout Jews abandon their faith and ardent Pagans to leave their religion as well to all jump on board together to this religion? Last, all of this was done with nothing in return to receive. What did early Christianity for the first 300 years (before it was Romanized) ever demand from its followers besides love your neighbors and God? They didn’t even use force like Muslims did. They had more to lose by being Christian than they had to gain. That seriously needs some evaluation and even a common folk can see that there has to be something more than that. For what is the purpose for all this?

Now we aren’t talking about some simple Hale Bopp event where a few followers invented some idea and then died for that belief. No, we are talking about something that goes beyond that and Hale Bopp doesn’t even compare on the scale. We are talking about thousands and thousands of opposing beliefs (Jews and Pagans) all unifying into one religion and then writing tons and tons of in-depth details about this character named Jesus and then dying for that belief by the thousands from the pressures of their government. This Christian religion would continue today.

But then I know what you’re thinking. You’re probably thinking “people die in the name of Islam all the time and that doesn’t mean Islam is true”. But that’s the very point I’m making. Its because Mohammed actually existed. Remember, we’re not here to argue about miracles contained in the Bible but only if the person named Jesus “should” exist using common sense. Also Islam and Christianity has different claims. Christianity is unique because the early Christians claimed and reported to have seen the resurrected Jesus with their own eyes. It was enough for them to die for that belief. It contest human reasoning to invent an eye witness testimony and choose death for that lie.

What would be the purpose to invent Jesus? Yes you can say that “men invent religions all the time for whatever purpose”. That’s true but in the case of Jesus, why would all these men collaborate to go as far as spend countless hours on volumes of books on Jesus especially if there is no monetary value involved? You don’t see books and commentaries by the volumes that talks about the entire life and biography of the Easter Bunny with such precise detail. Even more, you don’t see people dying in the name of the Easter Bunny when their government issues an ultimatum of death or conversion like the Romans did. Religions with those conflicts die off, not get stronger and build momentum. It is not in the nature of man to purposely and selfishly design an elaborate hoax to that extent and then die for it. These new converts would face death and persecution at the hands of Jews and Romans. With all these convenient religions to choose from such as Judaism, Mithraism, or some other form of Roman cult it would make no sense to formulate a complicated religion just to risk your own life.

I even hear about sarcastic remarks on the floating around the web how one should construct a story of purple unicorns or such and see how far the story can reach and how many people will believe that. They believe that is the case of the New Testament writers, a bunch of fables that reached the 4 corners of the world. That is pure non-sense. Stories served many purposes back then: (1) for monetary gains (2) to teach a life lesson (3) to explain a natural phenomenon. However we see a different style of the Gospel writers. For one, we see the book of John, an eye witness of Jesus who writes in a narrative style depicting Jesus as a real person with divine qualities. These New Testament writers were convicted in their writings and believed in to be true. In fact they believed it to be so true some of them faced death while others were close. Would you personally deny the story of Robin Hood or Santa Clause in exchange for your life? I’m sure you would, but these men didn’t. Instead, they constantly lived in fear and sacrificed their dignity, reputation, position, and life.

Even more, I often hear ignorant remarks like how people invented the Jesus story to feel good about themselves and to provide meaning and purpose. That is again refuted by the facts I made above. No one in their right state of mind invent stories to feel good understanding that it would cause them their life, persecution, being set of fire, being thrown in a Colosseum to be served as lion food, or nailed to the cross. Its a self defeating and suicidal journey. There are other ways to feel good. To believe they can all convince thousands to share that idea is just plain dumb.

I want to illustrate something called the Joe Blow scenario so you can understand the full extent and relevancy of what I’m trying to say:

Let’s say that 20 guys today live in a Muslim theocratic country like Turkey where any other religion that is non-Islamic is not truly welcomed but yet tolerated. These guys all then conspired, invented, and wrote about a guy name Joe Blow. They spent countless hours and dedicated such an elaborate story by the volumes and then spent years writing more copies. They then went out to sell their Joe Blow story and for some miraculous reason managed to convert thousands and thousands of devoted Muslims to abandon their faith despite the fact that they believe apostasy would endanger your soul to eternal fire according to Islam. These authors of Joe Blow even managed to convince intellect thinkers in the Muslim society such as doctors and engineers. Now these new converts were being persecuted by the hundreds and thousands for converting and it would be as bad as the death penalty. They had more to lose, nothing to gain, yet they still decided to stick to this fictitious fantastic idea and risk their lives. In fact, their religion only grew. They even gained the following of their rival religion and somehow managed to unify and coerce as one single unit. All of this was done without the use of force. To this day the religion of Joe Blow survived today and gained billions of followers and thrives today.

Folks, common sense need no religion. It does not need to side with atheism or Christianity to understand the unlikelihood for the Joe Blow example to happen. It would be a foolish and entertaining thought to believe that.

So are we just going to sit here and argue over the fact that we don’t know the names and can’t exactly identify who those 20 authors were? Are we going to then argue that it was 50 to 100 years off and not exact? Are we going to argue that Joe Blow didn’t even leave any writings? The point is that it was written by people and the Joe Blow religion exists. What we should be focusing and asking ourselves is if the Joe Blow scenario is even possible. We should also be asking ourselves the motives and purpose behind creating Joe Blow. We are overlooking those serious issues. To me it’s absurd and impossible to think that can all happen in that style and fashion without a grand purpose….Unless…..unless Jesus Christ actually existed, those writers were who they say they were, all the claims of Jesus’ existence they made were true, and there were eyewitnesses.

I don’t understand how non-Christians can use systematical analysis by bringing up intelligent points like “we don’t know who the authors were” and “it was written hundreds of years later” but then completely throw common sense out the window and believe that an invented fantasy like the Joe Blow scenario and its mechanics is highly probable or true. Are you kidding me? Seriously, does common sense have no merit at all in today’s society? Is it just a thing in the past?

Atheism VS Christianity: Is Christian religion the cause of war?

herqlez253 — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 15:19:53 +0000

Every so often do I hear how religions are the cause of wars and that if we eliminated all religions, there would be no wars. Atheists seem to repeat historical events like the Crusades, the Thirty Year’s War, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials. They just love using those examples to point out how bad religion, specifically Christianity really is. It’s unfortunate that secularist have done such a great job convincing millions of people to buy this kind of belief and the common folk just seems to spit out those gimmicks. But is that really the case and is there truly justification for that?
First and foremost, let’s examine the details for its details that make the difference

Crusades: The purpose of the Crusades was to protect the entire European nation against the advancement of Islam. It was a series of defensive responding against Muslim conquest. After 200 years of Muslim attacks, the Christians finally responded back and recaptured Jerusalem. They saw it as a call to regain back their stolen territory for self defense and in the name of Christ. Now is there completely something wrong with defended your country and responding back to attack? Certainly not! If it weren’t for these brave Christians all of Europe right now would be under Islamic Law! History would have been altered! Many of these Christians gave up everything they had and even sold their own property to risk their lives for this mission. However, it is true that the Crusades were in fact responsible for the killing of many Jews and innocent people. That is due to the fact that the Crusades attracted all sorts of people including evil ones. Some joined to fulfill selfish and evil ambitions such as the spoils of wars and political gains. These men were not Christian for Jesus said “by your fruits you will know them.” Not once did Jesus, the founder of Christianity, ever say go out and destroy countries for the sake of my name. In fact He said “if you live by the sword you will die by the sword.” These evil men were hypocrites and used God for his own evil agenda. Their actions totally contradicted the very teachings of Jesus as they gave the entire mission a bad name.
Spanish Inquisition- Contrary to popular belief about millions of dying, history proves otherwise. Founded in 1478, by Monarchs Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castil, Spain sought to reestablish itself as a Catholic nation only because it saw Jews and Muslim as a potential threat. The inquisition was ran by the government rather that the church and its purpose was to expel non-Catholics. However, some of its true motives are unclear. Many Jews and Muslims, feeling the pressure lied about their conversions and pretended to be Catholic to keep their land and stay. The Inquisition only had authority over Christians so most of the punishments were targeted around Jews pretending to be Christian. Surprisingly enough, most of the allegations were from other Jews who were angry because the so-called converted Jews abandoned their Judaic faith. Even more, the Jews that accused the other Jews didn’t have to testify and were exempt from the jurisdiction and the grand Inquisitor himself was Jewish. Were fake Christians tortured in horrific ways? Yes. However, a majority of the punishments were actually community services and the Inquisition trials were fairer than all of Europe’s judicial system! Only criminals were executed. How many died? The figures were from 1500 to 4500 total in a course of 350 years!!! So all this millions of dying were a myth created by anti religious propaganda. Now was the Inquisition actually Christian like? Absolutely not! Did Jesus once force anyone to believe Him against their own will or preach his disciples to do the same? Never! Jesus came in humble spirit to spread the Good News about love, mercy, redemption, and punishment for evil but He never forced or wished death on anyone who didn’t accept His message.
Salem Witch Trials- How many were killed? Thousands? Millions? Actually only 19 were burnt to the stake and a few died in captivity, a substantial figure of less than 25 total. These numbers were actually magnified and exaggerated by atheist. Fewer than 100,000 died in Europe. Even though this is a dent in Christianity’s dark history, it is not plausible to believe that it will happen again, yet we still bring it up as if it will. This paranoia is nonsense. In fact, if you go to Salem today, witches are actually thriving and a now a tourist attraction.

Consider that most of these were not done in the name or religion or in the name of Jesus but through selfish hypocrites masquerading as Christians. These were contrary to the religious teachings of Jesus. The Crusades, as an exception was more or less a political motive then it was a religious one. These fantastic claims were twisted and exaggerated from atheist. So is it fair to hold Christians accountable today for these past crimes from hypocritical people claiming to be Christian? That’s religious generalization. Its like saying because one white, black, or brown guy commits a crime, he represents his nation and culture so they should be all be blamed also. Furthermore, should all the good that Christianity has done be overlooked and have no merit at all? But where is the accountability for atheism? Let’s compare these events when Atheism measures up.

Communism- an atheist ideology formulated under Karl Marx that called for the abolition of religion. Atheism is a central part in this doctrine and used any necessary means to rid religion while creating an atheist utopia. Similarly, Nazism called for the eradication of religion. Under this ideology, we can see how it is responsible for the mass murders in history through the following:

Communist Russia- Stalin was responsible for 20 million deaths from mass slayings, forced labor camps, population relocation, firing squads
Communist China- Mao Zedong was responsible for 70 million deaths.
Communist Cambodia- Pol Pot eliminated 2 million of his own countrymen. That’s 1/5 of the entire country!!!
Nazi Germay- Hitler was responsible for 10 million murders, 6 million were Jews. Hilter shared much of Darwin’s atheist, evolutionistic ideas of “survival of the fittest” while wanting to create an ideal man through ethnic cleansing of millions.

That’s not even to mention communist tyrants like Fidel Castro of communist Cuba and Kim Jong-il of Communist North Korea. If Christians should be held responsible for the Crusades, Witch Trials, etc, then according to the same standards atheist should be responsible for the millions of bloodshed it brought through its anti-religious ideology which is incomparable!! Fortunately the Crusades and Salem Witch Trials are in the distant past. Unfortunately, we cannot say the same for this Communist, atheist ideology which is very much alive today.

In the light of defense, let’s examine what good Christianity has brought to this world by going back to its founder, Jesus. During an era and culture where women and children were looked down upon, Jesus had a radical idea and a message of compassion. He taught to love them equally. This was one the first movement in women’s rights and child protection in a Pagan Rome. When sinners like thieves, corrupt tax collectors, and prostitutes were looked down upon, Jesus ate with them and taught to not judge but to forgive them, to be merciful, live a life of humility, and to serve others. Jesus golden rule to love others and treat them as you would want to be treated today is still the heart of Christian doctrine. Jesus also taught equality among Jews, Gentiles, and different races. It was so profound that it even inspired a Christian minister by the name of Martin Luther King Jr and his call for civil rights. Jesus shared examples of how he wanted his disciples to behave when he healed the sick, fed the poor, and instructed his followers to mimic after him. After the death of Jesus, we saw his teachings and examples had such an impact of the earliest Christians. History shows that the first Christians sold their possessions to build churches, care for the needy, the poor, the widows, and the orphans. They saw that Rome’s gladiator coliseum was inhuman and cruel so they were abolished. Christianity had a huge influence on the reformation of health care throughout history because it was one of the first to build hospices and hospitals to care for the needs of everyone. The poor were fed and given free burial. Orphans and widows were protected and provided for. Elderly men and women, prisoners, sick slaves and other outcasts, especially the leprous, were cared for. This was enough to impress the Romans at that time. Even organizations like the Red Cross had Christian origins. To this day Christianity is on every scene when it comes to humanitarian contribution. It is accountable for billions of dollars spent and endless hours of service time donated to humanity. All of this is not even to mention how Christianity has shaped, defined, and advanced the world and government through its arts, literature, civil rights and scientific discoveries. Charity and service is one of the core tenants of Christianity yet atheist continue insist that religions like Christianity is such bad thing.

Reference: What’s so Great about Christianity- Dinesh D’souza

Hercules Cummings

herqlez253 — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:16:16 +0000

My name is Hercules and welcome to my blog site. I’ve spent countless hours studying religion, understanding God’s Word and His nature. My conclusion has lead me to believe that the Judeo/Christian God is the most reasonable belief out there. I believe that His Truth is revealed to us through the power of His Son, His Word, and evidence that surrounds us. I believe that we are all created for a special purpose here. Please read and let me know what you think. I’m open to constructive comments and enjoy feedback. I’m come here in a humble spirit as I try to tackle the hardest questions I had personally. I’m only here to learn, exchange ideas, improve myself, and to create positive relationships with others and the Great “I AM”. God bless you.

The Book of Mormon VS The Bible

herqlez253 — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:44:12 +0000

Historical Jesus and what early Christians believe he was

herqlez253 — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:01:08 +0000

What does history teach us about the man Jesus? What or who did people think Jesus was during his lifetime? Others claim that he was just a prophet, a good man, the Bible has been corrupted over the years to alter his identity as a God status, or that he didn’t exist at all. I’m going to provide solid evidence by addressing just the facts from within the Bible and outside of the Bible and their sources. You be the judge.

1. Are there any historical evidence of Jesus and what do they contain?

John Rylands fragment, Papyrus 19, written 125 AD, found in Egypt now located at the John Rylands Library, contains John 18:31–33, 37–38
Papyrus 90 written 150AD, located at Ashmolean Museum contains John 18-19
Papyrus 104 written 150AD located at Papyrology Rooms, Sackler Library, Oxford contains Matthew 21:34-37
Papyrus 98 written about 175 AD located at the French Institute of Oriental Archeology, contains Revelation 1:13-2:1
Papyrus 75 written 175 AD located Vatican Library, Rome contains Luke 3:18-24:53 and John 1-15
Papyrus 4 written 150AD located Paris, Bibliotheque Nationale, contains Luke 1-6

Keep in mind, these fragments were in papyrus, were carbon dated, and now contained in museums. These were not originals but rather copies of the originals meaning they had to have been written PRIOR to 120-175AD. Upon reading the verses only contained in the multiple fragments above, we can see that:

The Jews convicted Jesus as a criminal by claiming to be the Son of God, betrayed by Judas and handed him to Pontius Pilate who believed Jesus was innocent
Jesus did confirm he was a King from another world
John the Baptist preached and was imprisoned by Herod
John had a vision of the resurrected Jesus
God called Jesus his Son
The Birth of Jesus was foretold and he was born of a Virgin

Some scholars even date John to be written around 60AD. That’s 30 years after the death of Jesus, not enough time for a myth or legend to be formed.

Some contenders will protest that its all hearsay. That is actually wrong. The book of John, a disciple and eye witness of Jesus was also a Gospel writer. In fact, Peter and James, the brother of Jesus were also eye witnesses and have many works in the New Testament. They all make claims that Jesus is God and witnessed his powers.

What did the early church fathers view Jesus as?

Polycarp 65-150 AD, disciple of John the Apostle

Polycarp Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians

Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal
High-priest Himself the [Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in
faith and truth, and in all gentleness and in all avoidance of wrath
and in forbearance and long suffering and in patient endurance and in
purity; and may He grant unto you a lot and portion among His saints,
and to us with you, and to all that are under heaven, who shall
believe on our Lord and God Jesus Christ and on His Father that
raised him from the dead.

Ignatius of Antioch died 107 AD, disciple of John the apostle wrote this of Jesus to the church at Ephesus:

I pray for your happiness forever in our God, Jesus Christ, by whom continue ye in the unity and under the protection of God, I salute Alce, my dearly beloved. Fare ye well in the Lord.'Very Flesh, yet Spirit too; Uncreated, and yet born; God-and-Man in One agreed' (§ 7; Early Christian Writings, p. 63)

“Jesus Christ our God” Eph inscr, Eph 15:3, Eph 18:2, Tral 7, Ro inscr 2x, Ro 3:3, Smyr 10:1.

In Jesus “God was revealing himself as a man” Eph 19:3

For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan . . .(Ephesians 18:2)

Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished, when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life . . .(Ephesians 19:3)

"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health,when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)`

Irenaeus (ca. 185) in his work Adversus Haereses (Against Heresies)

- Of Jesus he says "He is the holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counselor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God, coming on the clouds as the Judge of all men; --all these things did the Scriptures prophesy of Him." AH III.19.2 (Ante Nicene Fathers 1: 449). "He, therefore who was known, was not a different being from Him who declared, 'No man knoweth the Father,' but one and the same, the Father making all things subject to Him; while He received testimony from all that He was very [true] man, and that He was very [true] God, from the Father, from the Spirit, from angels, from the creation itself, from men, from apostate spirits and demons, from the enemy, and last of all, from death itself.” AH, IV, 6,7 (ANF, 46)

“he sent the Designer and Maker of the universe himself, by whom he created the heavens and confined the sea within its own bounds” (ca. 125 AD, Diognetus 7:2 )

“He sent him as God; he sent him as man to men.” (Diognetus 7:4)

Through these ancient works, we can confirm with confidence what the early Christians within 90-150 years of Jesus death actually believed in. It is less likely that the New Testaments beliefs of Jesus were altered contrary to what the Quran and other sources say. The early writings of the Church Fathers combined with the actual New Testament papyrus reaffirms and strengthens the validity that they believed that Jesus is the Son of God, The Messiah, and God. The beliefs of the early church fathers are also consistent with the beliefs of the New Testament writers. However, are there any external sources from these writers that make mentions of that?

2. Secular sources for the historical Jesus:

CORNELIUS TACITUS (55 – 120 A.D.) Tacitus was a 1st and 2nd century Roman historian who lived through the reigns of over half a dozen Roman emperors. Considered one of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Tacitus verifies the Biblical account of Jesus’ execution at the hands of Pontius Pilate who governed Judea from26-36 A.D. during the reign of Tiberius.

“Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius. But the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, by through the city of Rome also.” Annals XV, 44

GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLUS (69 – 130 A.D.) Suetonius was a prominent Roman historian who recorded the lives of the Roman Caesars and the historical events surrounding their reigns. He served as a court official under Hadrian and as an annalist for the Imperial House. Suetonius records the expulsion of the Christian Jews from Rome (mentioned in Acts 18:2) and confirms the Christian faith being founded by Christ.

“As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.” Life of Claudius 25.4

PLINY THE YOUNGER (63 – 113 A.D) Pliny the Younger admits to torturing and executing Christians who refused to deny Christ. Those who denied the charges were spared and ordered to exalt the Roman gods and curse the name of Christ. Pliny addresses his concerns to Emperor Trajan that too many citizens were being killed for their refusal to deny their faith.

“I asked them directly if they were Christians…those who persisted, I ordered away… Those who denied they were or ever had been Christians…worshiped both your image and the images of the gods and cursed Christ. They used to gather on a stated day before dawn and sing to Christ as if he were a god… All the more I believed it necessary to find out what was the truth from two servant maids, which were called deaconesses, by means of torture. Nothing more did I find than a disgusting, fanatical superstition. Therefore I stopped the examination, and hastened to consult you…on account of the number of people endangered. For many of all ages, all classes, and both sexes already are brought into danger…” Pliny’s letter to Emperor Trajan

Lucian of Samosate

The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day—the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account…” The Death of Peregrine, 11-13

These writings were from non-Christian sources written within 70 years of Jesus death! They confirm the following:

Jesus existed
He was called the Christ
His followers were called Christians
his followers were being persecuted
They sang about him as if he were God
It was a new belief in Judea all the way to Rome
He was the brother of James
He won many believers
He was believed to be the Savior

In summary, there are more convincing evidence to point out those believers in Christ with less than 175 years of his death died for their faith and were all convinced that Jesus was the Messiah, Son of God, and God. These sources derived from inside and outside of the Bible. With this amount of compelling evidence, it is up to the disbeliever to prove otherwise.

Is Jesus the archangel Michael?

herqlez253 — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:55:28 +0000

Irrefutable Proof that Jesus Christ is NOT Michael the archangel.

First turn to the book of Revelation. 1:9. John is exiled on the island of Patmos and was then caught up by the Spirit and heard a voice commanding him to write down events he is about to witness on a scroll. As soon as John turns around he describes this man

-          One like the son of man
- Wearing a robe to his feet
-          Golden belt on his waist
-          Hair white as snow-white wool
-          Eyes like fire
-          Shined like furnished brass
-          Voice was like the sound of a trumpet and rushing waters

He then calls himself

-The first and last
- the living one who was dead and no alive forever
- who holds the keys of death
- Amen, the faithful and true witness
- the holy one, the true one, who holds the key of David
- Son of God
- The Spirit

Upon this John fell on his feet as if he was dead and this man told him not to be afraid. It’s very obvious to see that this man is actually Jesus. We can all agree on that.

Now turn to Daniel (8:15). We see Daniel having a vision and suddenly encountered Gabriel who is telling him what his visions means.

Later on, Gabriel returns back to Daniel in Daniel 9:21 to further his understanding. However, by this time, Daniel is already familiar with his name and knows who Gabriel is by saying

“While I was praying, the man Gabriel, who I had already seen in the vision, came close to me at the hour of the evening sacrifice, flying swiftly”

Later on in Daniel 9:5, Daniel encounters another being in his vision. Daniel describes this being as:

-clothed in linen
-wore a belt of gold
-face shining like lightning
-eyes like torches
-arms and feet like bronze
- voice like a multitude.

Looks familiar? It’s clear that Daniel is seeing Jesus, the same form that John in Revelation was seeing.

Moving on, Daniel, upon his encounter, falls to the ground without strength, and then a hand brings him up. So, who’s hand was it? Some people will say that the vision was of Jesus, BUT the hand that brought him up was Gabriel’s or another angel’s hand. However that is incorrect in any contextual level. If it was Gabriel’s hand, Daniel would say so since he is already familiar with Gabriel by this time. If it was someone else, Daniel would at least say there were more beings present there but he didn’t.

Daniel also calls this man “lord” with Daniel being his “servant” (Daniel 10:17). We know that angels are NEVER called Lords and we are NEVER their servants. That is blasphemy. If Daniel was saying that because he was overwhelmed, the angel would at least have corrected him as seen in Revelation 22:8-9, Revelation 19:10. Angels know better to be worshiped and would never accept worship and take God’s glory.

Once again, it is easy to see that this man that Daniel is seeing is Jesus, and it was his hand that pulled him up, and it was him alone talking to Daniel without anyone else present.

This is important because that man (Jesus) says the following:

“I have come to answer your prayers. But the angel prince of the kingdom of Persia resisted me for twenty-one says, and then, seeing that I had held out there, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me against the prince of Persia…”(Daniel 12:13)

“..I am going back to fight with the prince of Persia, and, as soon as I have left the prince of Greece will appear: I have no ally on my side to help and support me, except Michael, your prince. However I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth…”

“..Michael shall appear, Michael the great captain, who stands guard over your fellow country-men; and there will be a time of distress such as has never been since they became a nation till that moment..”

So from here we know that Jesus was being helped by Michael, the great captain and one of many chief princes. How can Jesus be Michael at the same time while being helped by Michael?

Also if Jesus was Michael, then Jesus would be one of many chief princes saying there are other co-equals with him. We know that Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Jesus cannot be those things if he is “one of many”. Jesus and Michael are not the same.

Here is another reason why Jesus cannot be Michael:

In Jude 1:9 it says, “But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

If Jesus and Micheal were the same, why is it showing a different picture of Jesus? This Jesus is disputing Satan but too scared to accuse him. However the New Testament Jesus shows a Jesus of authority who speaks boldly with fire driving demons out and also rebukes Satan during his temptation. There are numerous examples where Jesus speaks in authority. Once again Micheal and Jesus cannot be the same person.

Jesus is God: Irrefutable Proof

herqlez253 — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:15:47 +0000

Isaiah 48:12-13, 17

“Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together…. [17] This is what the LORD says — your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the LORD your God….”

It is clearly Understood when God spoke of being the first and the last, it meant his eternal state. It was not a metaphor.

However, In Revelation, Jesus claims the same thing.

Revelation 1:17-18 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

So why should we believe that he is speaking metaphorically? Also, how can two things be the first and last at the same time relatively speaking? Unless they are the same thing.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Obviously this was referring to Jesus, the prophesied son, “will be called…Mighty God and Everlasting Father.

Even though kings in the Bible shared the title “God” they were NEVER given the title Everlasting Father. That title was only given to God alone and would be considered blasphemy.

Micah 5:2 (New International Version)

2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,

though you are small among the clans [a] of Judah,

out of you will come for me

one who will be ruler over Israel,

whose origins [b] are from of old,

from ancient times. [c] “

Micah 5:2 (New American Standard Bible)

2″But as for (A)you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,

Too little to be among the clans of Judah,

From (B)you One will go forth for Me to be (C)ruler in Israel

His goings forth are (D)from long ago,

From the days of eternity.”

Once again it is referring to Jesus. However its stating that his origins are from ancient times.

John 10:30-33 “I and the Father are one.” Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

The Jews here made it clear that they charged Jesus with blasphemy for claiming to be God. John the author makes no mistakes when mentioning that the Jews thought that Jesus was claiming to be God…not an angel of heavenly courts, not a great prophet, but God.

John 5:17-18 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Once again John the author is clearly stating that the “Son of God” is considered equal with God the Father. John uses the word “equal” making it distinct.

Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

How can God purchase the church with his own blood?

Isaiah 40:3 A voice of one calling: “In the desert prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God.

Mark 1:1-3 The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God. It is written in Isaiah the prophet: “I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way” — “a voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.’”

John the Baptist is obviously the messenger in Mark who is preparing the way for God by making it straight in the wilderness. John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus.

Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome…

1 Timothy 6:15 …which God will bring about in his own time — God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords.

Revelation 17:14 They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings — and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

God is called Lord of all Lords. That is an absolute statement. Yet, Jesus is also called Lord of all Lords. How can they both be Lord of all Lords at the same time? That is a logical contradiction. No two absolutes can occur at the same. Its like comparing two things with each other but being the best at the same time. Only one can be the best unless they are the same thing.

10.

1 Timothy 3:14-16

14Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. 16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:

He[c] appeared in a body,[d]

was vindicated by the Spirit,

was seen by angels,

was preached among the nations,

was believed on in the world,

was taken up in glory.

based on the content of the preceding verses, Paul was only talking about God and makes no mention of Jesus at all. But how is it that he clearly says that He (God) manifested in the flesh?

11.

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another…

Isaiah 48:11c I will not yield my glory to another.

John 17:5 [Jesus prayed] And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

God says that he will not give any glory to one another. Interestingly enough, he gives it to Jesus. Also Jesus makes an interesting statement when he requests to receive glory he had with him “before” the World began.

12.

John 1 & 14

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning….

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So here we have it. In the beginning was the Word, which was God, who came down in the flesh and dwely among us. This Word came from the Father. This was obviously talking about Jesus.

Revelation 19:13

He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

This verse only reinforces that. Jesus is also names the “Word of God”.

13. Here is the prophet Zechariah recording God’s own Words in Zech 12:10

“In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem….and they will look on Me whom they have pierced and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son…

God is foretelling that he is going to be pierced from his enemies. When did God get pierced?

14.
“In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem….and they will look on Me whom they have pierced and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son (Zech 12:8a, 10b).

How can a finite created being take on the sins of the entire world let alone one man especially if the Bible says that no man can die for another.

Deuteronomy 24:16 it specifically says this:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses tries to offer himself as an atonement for the sins of the people. To be written out of God’s book, means to be written out of the Book of Life, which means Moses was asking to die for the sins of the People. God’s response was “No, it does not work that way, each man dies for his own sin:”

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Eternal; perhaps I shall make an atonement for your sin. And Moses returned unto the Eternal, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Eternal said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them. And the Eternal plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made. [Exodus 32:30-35]

The word of the Eternal came unto me again, saying, What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge? As I live, saith the Eternal God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Eternal God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. [Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27]

It’s very clear that a man can not die for another. The definition of a “man” meant that he was finite and created. However, if Jesus was just a finite man, he couldn’t have died for your sins. But since he did, he cannot be finite and therefore an infinite being, being able to take on infinite sins!

He cannot “just” be a created finite man. He is God.

Why won’t God answer my prayers? Here is the Reason

herqlez253 — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:39:02 +0000

Why won’t God answer my prayers?

Every Christian experiences this multiple times in their lives. It’s actually very common. The cliché is if we pray to God sincerely God will answer us. But if you are tuned into reality, you know that is not always the case. There are times when God is silent and seems to go on for many years without answering your prayer. The false assumption is that God responds to our prayer because of our sincerity or because we are sincere, God will respond. Now that becomes a work of righteous and the Bible is clear that no one is righteous. You have often heard in church or through another Christian that “God will give you what you need, not what you want” or “God’s time to answer your prayers are not your time; God knows the right time”. Although these may be correct, that isn’t always true in every situation. You may have heard in the Bible when Jesus was saying “Ask and it shall be given to you” or “..I will do whatever you ask in my name”; “My father will give you whatever you ask in my name”.

But then there is silence on that matter and that prayer goes unanswered. We are then left wondering where’s God when we need him or “we must done something bad and our punishment is an unanswered prayer!” What some Christians fail to understand is that the Jesus’ promises were based on qualifications. Dr. William Lane Craig enlightens us on that issue in his book “Hard Questions, Real Answers” on biblical possibilities on why our prayers could be unanswered.

1. God cannot contradict Himself: We know that when two rival football teams, equal in faith, experience, and talent pray to God for Victory, only one will win and the other will lose. God cannot contradict prayers.

2. We have to repent for our sins and come clean:

Psalm 66:18 says “If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord will not have listened”

Proverbs 15:29 NIV, “The LORD is far from the wicked but he hears the prayer of the righteous.”

Unfortunately the Bible also says that no one is righteous and all have fallen short. But it is through the blood of Jesus, our faith in Him, and our repentance to Him that washes our unrighteous away.

The Bible says in (1 John 1:6-9 NIV), “If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. {7} But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. {8} If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. {9} If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.“

Romans 4:5

However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 4:9

Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.

Genesis 15:6

Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Bottom line: We must be right before God and come clean before He even accepts our prayers.

1 Peter 3:7

Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

In other words, we must be respectful to our spouses and neighbors because failing to do so can hinder your prayers!

3. Wrong Motives- Too often are our prayers are motivated by selfishness such as “Dear God, please give me that car I always wanted”.

James tells us “When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures” (James 4:3)

Prayer that is totally self-centered does not fall under the promises of Jesus. We should request things that are of God and not only to satisfy our selfish desires.

4. Lack of faith-

Mark 11:24 tells us “Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.”

James 1:6-8 tells us “But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.”

A doubtful prayer will not be answered. Words without faith are words without meaning, its empty. We must pray in faith and bold confidence.

5. Lack of earnestness.

You must be sincere when you pray.

6. Lack of perseverance- Many times we will pray once or twice and that’s it. We just give up. Jesus talks about perseverance in his parables Luke 11:5-8 and Luke 18:1-8. The point of the message is that if we want something bad we should preserve and never give up

7. It must be according to God’s will and not your own will.

Romans 12:2 tells us, “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—His good, pleasing and perfect will.”

The only decision God does not want us to make is the decision to sin or resist His will.

“Delight yourself in the LORD and He will give you the desires of your heart” (Psalm 37:4).

You will know what God’s will is by asking Him, walking with Him by obeying his commandments, and doing things that will glorify Him.

1 John 3:21-22 (New International Version)

²¹Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God ²²and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him.

Why did God order the annihilation of the Canaanites?

herqlez253 — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:05:58 +0000

Most of the time when people refer to God as being cruel and a bloodthirsty barbarian, they usually refer to how God ordered bloodshed and total annihilation of an entire race including babies and old people. A genocide if you call it. Well, this makes a perfect argument for atheist to bank off of to prove to us that the God in the Bible cannot be real. But is that truly the case? If God is a judge then how can he be so unfair? This seems to be a uncomfortable, touchy subject in which Christians will overlook and hope to ignore. In today’s society, people ask simple questions but demand instant answers because they are impatient with complexity. Why did God order the annihilation of the Canaanites (consisting of the Sidon, Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, Arvadites, Zemarites and Hamathites) including babies and women? That certainly is a simple question deserving an answer. But fortunately God gives us the answers by leaving His Word and that answer is found simply by doing homework, what anti-Christians usually fail to do.

Tracing back from the beginning of the encounters, Joshua, Aaron, and Moses were leading the Israelites to their promise land. The fist battle occurred against Edom. Israel asked first if they can pass through and said they wouldn’t touch anything. Instead of just refusing, Edom initiated a war for no reason so the Israelites fought back to defend themselves and defeated them. (Numbers 20:14-24) Nothing unfair with that.

Now along their journey, King Arad, a Canaanite also instigated a war against and held them captive for no reason. So Israel fought back in self defense. Nothing unusual with that (Numbers 21:1).

Then a third incident occurs. Israel is once again minding their own business and wanting to travel to their promise land without bothering anyone. They came across Sihon, King of the Amorites and requested if they could peacefully pass through. You guessed it, Sihon refused and started a war against Israel for no apparent reason so Israel fought against them. They defeated Sihon and Og, kings of that region. (Numbers 21;22) Can you see the trends here?

Continuing their journey, the Midinites knew they couldn’t defeat Israel through war. They knew they were protected under the True God because of their victories. So instead of applying with what they understood, they still maintained their evil ways. They got real tricky and used their women to sexually seduce the Israel men and take part of evil practices and Baal worship (Numbers 31:16). They were partially successful until God struck down the men and women engaged in that practice through plagues and execution. Fortunately the Midinite women who were innocent were spared.

Later on, a tribe called the Gibeonites cleverly tricked the Israelites into having a peace treaty with them. Even though Israel wasn’t too happy being tricked, they still honored their word for being allies. We read later on that the Adoni, Hoham, Piram, Japhra, and Debir fought against Israel’s allies. Israel, keeping their truce, fought back against their ally’s enemies. That’s what friends are for right? Just like we helped our allies during World War 1 and 2. There is nothing wrong with that.

Although these answer certain episodes they don’t account for the rest of the wars that continued after. So what was the reason?

Well One great reason why God ordered the genocide was because they practiced Baalism with their God’s of Peor, Astheroth, Berith, and Molech. God called Baalism detestable and such an abomination. (Judges 2:19) It consisted of sacrificing innocent children (2 Judges 11-14). King Ahab and Ahaz who sacrificed their son by burning them into the fire (2 Kings 16:3, 2 Kings 21:6)

The Bible speaks clearly on this:

“And they built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech” (Jeremiah 32:35).

“They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons as offering to Baal” (Jeremiah 19:5).

‘You burn with lust among the oaks and under every spreading tree; you sacrifice your children in the ravines and under the overhanging crags’ (Isa.57:5).

They have set their abominations in the house which is called My name, to pollute it. And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire ..’ (Jer.7:30-31)

You took your sons and your daughters, whom you bore to Me, and these you sacrificed to them [the idols] to be devoured. Were your acts of harlotry a small matter, that you have slain My children and offered them up to them by causing them to pass through the fire?‘ (Ezek.16:20-21)

The LORD said to me: “Son of man, will you judge Oholah and Oholibah? Then confront them with their detestable practices, for they have committed adultery and blood is on their hands. They committed adultery with their idols; they even sacrificed their children, whom they bore to me, [a] as food for them. They have also done this to me: At that same time they defiled my sanctuary and desecrated my Sabbaths. On the very day they sacrificed their children to their idols, they entered my sanctuary and desecrated it. That is what they did in my house. ( Ezekiel 23:36-39)

Also get this- after the Baal priest rolled the babies into the fire, they engaged in sexual intercourse and orgies! In fact archaeology confirmed this by has uncovering Baal cemeteries with the remains of more than 20,000 children and 6000 cremated children in urns in a Phoenician Baal worship site. Now if you don’t see why God wanted this nation destroyed now you know. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you’ (Deut.18:10)

God also says this about Baal worship:

“I will bring such a catastrophe on this place … because they have forsaken Me and made this an alien place, because they have burned incense in it to other gods whom neither they, their fathers, nor the kings of Judah have known, and have filled this place with the blood of the innocents. They have also built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or speak, nor did it come into mind; therefore behold, the days are coming,”

The children were going to die anyways or grow up to continue this abominal act. By ending their lives as children, God enabled them to have entrance into Heaven. The Bible also reveals that God was patient to the Canaanites. After hundreds of years they continued to practice evil ways. We see an example of a Canaanite prostitute by the name of Rahab spared because of her righteousness. Unfortunately the Canaanites continued to do evil.

Finally, the reason why God gave that order was because He knew if they allowed that race to continue to exist, they would lead the daughters and sons of Israel to intermarry and be taught the ways of Baal (Duet 20:18, Judges 2: 1-4, Duet 7:1-6, Judges 8:33, Exodus 23:19). Over and over again God warned what would happen. God also warned them not to make any covenants because they would turn against Israel when they least expected it, rise into power, and then enslave them. Of course, God is God and can see the future. And guess what? When Israel didn’t listen and disobeyed, God’s prophecies came true. When Israel spared a few Canaanites, they later started practicing their ways of child sacrifices and orgies (Judges 2:11, Judges 2:19). Baal worship is a religion of fertility so you could imagine what took place. Furthermore, these Canaanites that were spared rose back to power to enslave the Israelites. We see tons of examples of slavery and oppression from the Canaanites in the entire Book Of Judges and also in Judges 2:1-3; 1 Kings 11:5; 14:24; 2 Kings 16:3-4. One perfect example we see is when Saul disobeyed God’s command to wipe away the Amalekites by sparing 400 men. Just a couple of decades later there were enough Amalekites to take David and his men’s families captive (1 Samuel 30:1-2). After David and his men attacked the Amalekites and rescued their families, 400 Amalekites escaped. If Saul had fulfilled what God had commanded him, this never would have occurred. Several hundred years later, a descendant of Agag, Haman, tried to have the entire Jewish people exterminated (see the book of Esther). So, Saul’s incomplete obedience almost resulted in Israel’s destruction. God knew this would occur, so He ordered the extermination of the Amalekites ahead of time.

We know that God’s ways are higher than our ways and that He knows what’s best for us. He detests Canaanite Baal worship and is evil in his eyes! When we disobey God we will have a consequence not always because God is punishing us but because that’s what our actions lead us to.

Why did God strike down Uzzah and the 70 men?

herqlez253 — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:12:10 +0000

If you aren’t familiar with the story of Uzzah , it is explained in Samuel 6. The story goes on and says that after the Philistines were victorious against Israel they captured the Ark of the Covenant. They then sent it followed by a series of mysterious deaths from tumor-infested rats, afflicting their rulers and people as well as their statue of their god Dagon breaking, linking it back to the Ark. After 7 months, they finally agreed to send it back to the Israelites with guilt offerings of golden tumors and golden rats on a wooden cart carried by 2 cows. The Israelites were rejoicing for the return of the Ark and celebrated by cutting up the wood and sacrificing the cows however 70 people were struck dead when he looked inside the ark.

The Ark later resided in Abinadab’s house for 20 years. After Saul, David became King of Israel and upon his victory over the Philistines, he sent 30,000 of his men to bring it back to Israel. Upon carrying it, the oxen stumbled and a man named Uzzah went out to grab the ark and was immediatedy stuck dead by God.

Now, one can see this and immediately question “how can God be all loving and strike people dead for a little curiosity and someone trying to help by picking up the ark?” In order to find that answer we must look at the basis for this happening which is in the Bible.

Going back in Exodus, we know that the Ark was one of the most holy artifacts where God dwelled and talked to the high priest. Part of the Ark contained rings around it where poles would go through to move it. Exodus 25:13-16. God also gave careful instructions that the Levites, the lines of priests, were the only ones allowed to move the ark or else death would follow. Numbers 1:51

Numbers 4:15

15 “After Aaron and his sons have finished covering the holy furnishings and all the holy articles, and when the camp is ready to move, the Kohathites are to come to do the carrying. But they must not touch the holy things or they will die. The Kohathites are to carry those things that are in the Tent of Meeting.

Furthermore, the Kohathites, the clan of Levites, were allowed to move it only and that they couldn’t even touch it or else they would die. Not even Moses or Aaron themselves could touch it. God is so perfect and holy that He should not be in the presence of sin.

What we see here is that God was very specific and that although God is love, He is equally just and perfect, never to break His own Word. He will not give anyone an exception. Allowing Uzzah to get away with it would compromise God and lower his perfect standards. Also if Uzzah got away with it then we would lose respect for God’s Word and start to slack, not taking God serious, and thinking we can get away with other things. Uzzah was very clear of the consequences and he deliberately disobeyed God which cost him his life.

An easy analogy would be something like this:

Imagine you were the army and a bomb expert officer instructed you to not to touch a specific device no matter what circumstance but could move it with specific machinery. If you disobeyed his instructions it would result in something catastrophic and you would certainly die. Now if that device tilted over, would you pick it up with your hands? Of course not because you know better especially after you knew that the last 70 people that touched it all died.

By the ways not many know that Uzzah was actually the son of Abinadab who first had the ark previously after the Philistines sent it back. That only means that Uzzah already knew the consequence of touching the ark but he did it anyways!!! It wasn’t a mistake out of curiousity and God being over irrational like many people misconcieve. Uzzah knew what kind of trouble he was getting into way ahead of time. In fact, every single Jew knew about that. It was tribal knowledge and God’s Law that was passed down to everyone. Uzzah knew what he was doing all along but decided to put God to the test.

That comes to show you how God keeps His perfect Word and will not undermine Himself by breaking His own Word.

The Bible also tells us

1 Samuel 15:22

“Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams.